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| gibson; paying for the name? |
franckie116
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Ive been wanting a real gibson for a while but my local guitar shop have said that a copy might be just as good. what does everybody else think? 
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 3:44 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
azimuth
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My guess is there would be tons of threads over here on the subject.
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 3:49 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
franckie116
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do you agree with my local guitar shop?
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 4:00 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
azimuth
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It depends on your definition of "just as good". Are you mainly interested in impressing the ladies or do you want a quality guitar that will stand the test of time?
Some here have great things to say for Agile guitars and their "starter" or "budget" Les Paul copies.
http://www.rondomusic.com/electricguitar.html
If you fill out your profile some of us might have a better idea of how to respond to your question. i.e. how long have you been playing, musical interests, what other gear do you have, etc...
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 4:54 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
nickgibian
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azimuth said:
Are you mainly interested in impressing the ladies ?
i]
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Why else do people buy guitars? 
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 6:13 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
biggo66
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There are lots of good Les Paul style guitars that can be made great guitars with affordable upgrades.
Gibsons are so expensive now I find it hard to believe anyone could justify paying that much for it anymore... IMHO.
BIGGO 
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 6:31 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
dspellman
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franckie116 said:
Ive been wanting a real gibson for a while but my local guitar shop have said that a copy might be just as good. what does everybody else think?
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IMHO, Gibson doesn't start making a really good Les Paul type guitar until you get to the $3000 mark. Even at that price point, there are guitars that are far less expensive that easily compete with Gibsons in terms of playability and build quality.
At the low end, Rondo Music's Agile AL3000 series (AL3XXX, actually, since there are 3000M and 3100's) are real contenders, and normally run about $389 - $599 (if you want a 3/4" solid maple top). The pickups in these are Alnico V's that actually sound and respond very much like Gibson's '57's. The controls in these are serviceable, but it would certainly be cheap to shake these out and replace them with the best availalbe. But these guitars come with multi-layer binding around the body and headstock, single-layer binding on the fretboard. They have ebony fretboards and real abalone inlays. The fretboards have a 13.7" radius (Gibsons are 12" , the frets are hand-dressed, the necks are a bit thinner than Gibson's '60 series (you can also get necks that are wider and thinner) and very comfortable. The bodies are SOLID mahogany (I think there's one series that has chambered bodies available) and the result is a guitar that measures up very well against what Gibson tosses out there in the sub-$3000 range. 
Rondo also has a "custom shop" for these guitars that opens once every few months, and you can order a custom-built guitar from a fairly healthy laundry list of options. I did this and spec'd a guitar that had the following:
NECK THROUGH construction. A smoothed (Axcess-type) neck/body join. No heel.
Single piece mahogany (solid) body
3/4" solid figured maple top (tight flame)
Cherry sunburst finish iwth a cherry back and neck.
triple binding on body and headstock, single binding on neck.
Ebony fretboard, abalone inlays.
Floyd Rose, recessed
Wide neck (wider by 1/8th", thin neck (about 5mm thinner throughout)
16" radius fretboard
The total charge with shipping was around $1160. Duplicating this giutar through Gibson's Custom Shop with exactly the same specs (I had them do an estimate) was $5760 and the wait was estimated at 5-7 months.
The result was amazing and flawless. The Floyd, though a licensed version, turns out to have been made on the same production line as Floyd's OFRs in Korea (they've been making OFRs for large manufacturers in Korea for the last two years. Only Floyds built for tiny manufacturers and for the aftermarket are still built by Schaller in Germany). It's absolutely identical in every way to the OFR except for the stamp. There are no finish flaws, no glitches of any kind. The only drawback? it's heavy. You'd have to hear it in person to compare to a real Gibson. My basis of comparison is a black Gibson Custom Shop Axcess that arrived on exactly the same day (this was a $4400 guitar) that has a set of Burstbuckers (BB Pros?) installed. The Axcess has a thinner, chambered body and is much lighter. The Agile has lower action and a faster neck and better playability.
Here's a second choice that easily eclipses almost any Gibson up to that $3000 mark...Check out Carvins at http://www.carvin.com The "CS" series is a single cutaway guitar that looks similar to an LP. But *all* Carvins are custom built to your specs from their own laundry list of options. You can, of course, get an all-mahogany guitar with a carved fully figured solid maple top in flame or quilt in a wide variety of finishes. Ebony fretboards, MOP or Abalone inlays (lots of choices), Sperzel locking tuners, very fast necks, low action and outstanding player guitars (and the infamous LP neck heel is smoothed and rounded and virtually gone). The bodies are a bit thinner than LPs, but not all that much. It's still a substantial guitar. Want something a bit more exotic? How about an all koa neck and body with a flamed koa top. Prefer walnut? No problem. Want a tung-oiled neck and a satin finish body? Easy. Want a Floyd Rose trem? OFRs available. How about a Wilkinson trem? Also available. Want just two controls -- a Master volume and a master tone? Sure. Want coil taps? Yup. Phase switch? Sure.
The guitar I ordered from Rondo, you'll recall, was about $1160 with case, shipped to my door. The same guitar from Gibson? $5760 with a 5-7 month wait. Same guitar from Carvin? Around $2000, with a 5-7 *week* wait. Carvins are famous for their playability and the quality of their builds. I've got a half dozen, some new, some dating back to the late '80's. These things are not only gorgeous new, but even the 20-year-old ones have held up perfectly and are among the best playing guitars I own.
There are others out there (Edwards, Heritage, etc.) that are outstanding.
And yes, I've got Gibsons; my first through sixth guitars were Gibsons and I still have them. LPs, ES-335s, ES-5 Switchmaster, L5-S and more. All built prior to 1980. And then there's the Axcess, which is new.
A "real" Gibson is just fine to own; I think an R9 might be in my future eventually. But honestly, in terms of playability and value for the money and quality of finish? You really have to want to have "Gibson" on the headstock above all else to pay what they're asking. The guitars themselves don't justify it.
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 6:34 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
dspellman
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azimuth said:
Are you mainly interested in impressing the ladies
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We did a poll of ladies leaving a bar recently. Asked them if they could tell us what kind of guitar the guitar player was playing. 90% of them answered "Red."
Asked the same question of the guys. "I dunno, man -- I was watching the babes" was the answer most given.
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 6:37 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
azimuth
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Hhaah nice!
Hey, I saw the pics of your custom Agile on the MLP forums. So tell me, how much does it weigh?
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 7:05 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
Swamp Rocker
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Yes and no. Much of the high price of a Gibson is for the name, some of their prices are insane. especially the ones that are signature editions, add an extra $2000 for nothing but the name, sometimes a junkier guitar too. They should call them the suckers editions. There are many Gibson copies some are ok , bad or great.
Someone here just posted an article about Gibsons that was very interesting.
I recently saw Gibson Les Paul Studios advertised for $799 not a bad price. May have been a Musicians Friend, Daddys or GC 4th of July special. If you want one call GC usually they will usually honor a sale price for a few days beyond. I love the Studio mine is 25 years old. Some of the copies are more than $800 now.
I have a pair of Aria PE SPL DX with set necks HB DD 103 pickups, found them used like new on Ebay, Actually I bought 3 of them for under $800 total ,2 had cases. My brother got one from me. In many ways I like them better than my Les Paul. The pickups on the LP are 490s, those are a little more elegant than the 103 s. But the 103s are very close.
A bad strike against the LP is weight about 9-10 pounds a drag on the shoulder with long sessions as the body ages. The arias are 3 pounds lighter and comfortable to play all night. LPs are hit and miss quality wise. Almost all have issues with the crappy toggle switch. That is cheap to replace though. I love that old LP but the Aria is my main guitar. Looks better too.
The Agile 3000 gets good reviews , the Alnico pickups on it get good respect, but it is a chubby pig weight wise 10 pounder. They should thin it down and chamber it, get it down to 7. But it is a thousand dollars cheaper than a $1300 Gibson.
The Ibanez and Schecters and LTD or ESP make good guitars way below the Gibson price. Maritimer raves about his Ibanez Artcore, $3000 cheaper than it's Gibson counterpart.
If you can find a good Gibson used , pawn shop, ebay Craigs list that is in newish condition no cracks. repairs or excessive fret ware for near half the store rate that would be good. Used quality gear usually holds it's value and can be sold even sometimes for a little more than you bought it for , so no loss to you. Some brands do not hold value like Fender and Gibson do.
www.instrumentpro.com sells the Aria line , the ones I have are discontinued but there are other good ones . They make an LP copy for $3500 but some of their real cheap guitars are not great. They have fine instruments in the 500-700 zone.
Sometimes you can find good inexpensive guitars with junk pickups, All they would need is a pickup change to make them good.
$300 for an Agile is a good deal but so is $500 for a real used Gibson in good shape sometimes with a hard shell case. good luck
Every guitar is used the second you buy it new.
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 7:11 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
metal_head_13
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if you have the money i say go with the real gibson
but just play both and see which is better
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 8:05 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
jdeyo01
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if you can afford it go with the real Les-Paul. youll be happier, it will more than likely last longer and retain its value. If you keep it along time it will more than likely go up in value, ive had one of mine for almost 15 years, and it seems like it gets better with age.
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If it doesnt say Marshall on it then it really doesnt matter.
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 8:10 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
Scotty J
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I loves me some Gibby Les Paul. Why by a Bentley knock off if you can afford the real thing? Accept no substitutes.
Live life, Love life
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 8:59 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
papa_lazerous
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I got an epi it plays fine, but if at the time I had the cash I would have gotten the gibbo and it would have been a superior guitar, hardware wise (possibly finish although mine is good) and definately better wood
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| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 9:18 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
Zug-uitar
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The only real Gibson I have is my SG. ....a '61 Reissue which I got used at a Guitar Center when they were having a big sale a few years ago. It was played better than the brand new '61R (at $1,700) that I compared it to. Just a very nice specimen. Got it for $1,000. I think that was a good value. I love it. Shortly thereafter, there were a few rounds of price hikes and the '61R's shot up to about $2 grand.
Recently I've seen SG Standard's recently on MF going at a fairly reasonable $1,200. That's down from about $1,800.
Of course the Les Paul is much more popular than the SG. I have an Orville LP made in Japan for Gibson. Long story... but it compares very well to a 2 pickup Black Beauty LP Custom. I got mine used for only $750, but it was a bit dinged up. However, after getting the frets leveled and a few other upgrades it's a pretty fine guitar.
All that said, I think Dspellman is spot on in what he said. Take his advice.
...there is no emoiticon to express what I'm feeling...
| Post Date: 7/6/2009 @ 10:52 pm |
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RE: gibson; paying for the name? |
bertie
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if you've been longing for one, then its probably only the name you really want, and wont be happy until you do - nothing wrong with that at all.
If you're looking for the quality, but are concerned with the ££ - check out some of the Japanese 'copys' such as higher end Tokai, Burny and Orville (licensed by Gibson) they play just as well, sound just as good. Top end Tokais are better £ for £ but they will set you back £1500.....but you get custom shop quality.
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Frank says....................
Heres some of my dads pickin' and stuff
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| Post Date: 7/7/2009 @ 1:38 am |
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