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Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Hey there decimator g-string pedal users! (I'm talking to you, Juila Smiley )

I was having a look at this thing online. The layout of the 5 cables needed to hook this beastie up has me concerned as to how it will fit on my pedal board.

It's got 3 1/4" connections on the right hand side (RHS) - guitar in & out, and FX loop in - all VERY close to each other. On the RHS is the FX loop out. I assume the 9 volt power connection is on the top side, but I can't tell from the pictures on MF.

It looks like it would make for a crowded fit - especially on the RHS - because there isn't much room for right angle jacks.

For those who have this thing on your pedal board, would you post pics of how you have it arranged? Thanks!!


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 11/27/2008 @ 1:22 pm
RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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bump

Julia - ? ...anyone?


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/1/2008 @ 7:50 am

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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re-animator
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You put the legs through the two loops and pull up. Make sure you're not wearing it sideways.



Post Date: 12/1/2008 @ 1:09 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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ahem...

Well, I went and ordered the thing from MF. With their holiday sales going on I got the price down from $224 to about $190. (Couldn't find it used on ebay for a better price). I'll have it in a couple of days, and we'll see how well it fits in my pedal board layout. I'm expecting to go through some changes to deal with all the cable fitings. Hope it really knocks down the noise too.

I'll be posting pics by the weekend I think.


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/2/2008 @ 10:34 am

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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Zug-uitar said:

Hey there decimator g-string pedal users! (I'm talking to you, Juila Smiley )

I was having a look at this thing online. The layout of the 5 cables needed to hook this beastie up has me concerned as to how it will fit on my pedal board.

It's got 3 1/4" connections on the right hand side (RHS) - guitar in & out, and FX loop in - all VERY close to each other. On the RHS is the FX loop out. I assume the 9 volt power connection is on the top side, but I can't tell from the pictures on MF.

It looks like it would make for a crowded fit - especially on the RHS - because there isn't much room for right angle jacks.

For those who have this thing on your pedal board, would you post pics of how you have it arranged? Thanks!!


===================================================


A girl with alll the FX pedals she doesn't need doesn't usually check the FX forum. Smiley

Okay. This thing goes first in the chain, and must go before any other pedal:

Guitar -> Decimator -> other stuff before the amp -> amp in (preamp hiss and hum added) -> FX LOOP OUT -> immediately back to the Decimator G-string -> to other stuff in the loop -> FX LOOP RETURN -> Speakers.

I also use it during recording because it kills that noise during the sections where I'm not playing.

DO NOT USE A 9 volt Battery. It eats them like some people eat pizza and burps afterward. You need to use your 9 volt power supply. Open up the G-string battery compartment when you get it and remove the battery -- it's only there for test purposes.

Don't worry about the buffered bypass. It's an always on thing. Adjust the threshold so that your hum, hiss, and high gain squealies just stop when you mute the strings. Too high and you'll kill your sustain. I run mine at 11:30 with a 5150 II on the Lead Channel. If you're higher than that and start complaining Smiley It should not at all kill your sustain.

The FX loop signal out of the Marshall was too hot @ the - 10 dbv setting, and that popped a diode on it once causing the entire signal chain to fail. I called ISP Tech support and they sent me a return barcode for UPS. I had a brand new unit in a week.

I'm sure if Boss pedals weren't built as well as they are they would have been destroyed too. My MXR EQ used to flash due to signal clipping.

As I go back through all the "little problems" I had with the Marshall I have to say that thing was truly a Smiley I will never have another Marshall.

Notes on photographing the Decimator -- it's chrome. It barely shows up at all against a black background.

-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/2/2008 @ 1:06 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Thanks Julia.

I spoke with someone at ISP about the configuration. The g-string was designed for use in serial FX loops. My Framus has a parallel FX loop. Apparently the goofy thing was designed more with rack FX in mind. It may be ok if the blend knob on the FX loop allows it to function more like a serial connection. I am investigating this...

There is an alternate connection method in which the g-string is looped through the other pedals. In this case I would avoid looping through my chorus/echo pedal to avoid killing the echoes - as explained by the ISP guy.

The pedal actually arrived a day early but I will be too busy to deal with it till Thurs or more likely the weekend.

I am also wondering how the g-string will physically fit on the pedal board and how much space all these connections will take. Stay tuned...


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/2/2008 @ 11:45 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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Set your parallel loop to 100% wet and you should be fine.

If you put the G-string in the circuit before the chorus and echo effects it will have no effect on their performance. Use the diagram below. It works fine for me. It's pretty simple to use. Don't make it complicated.



Black is the input chain. Red is the FX loop. Your signal won't degrade and kill your chorus or other time based FX if you have the threshold set up properly.

-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/3/2008 @ 12:34 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Hey Julia, thanks for taking the time to make that diagram. I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way - its kind of a hybrid of the options I mentioned below. Looks very logical. The only thing I question is the position of the EQ pedal. Looks like it might equally well be placed in the black loop rather than the FX loop. Very cool. I will try this soon. (I just returned from a short business trip and I am tired).


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/3/2008 @ 4:45 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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Reason the EQ is in the FX loop. The change in the frequencies prior to the preamp will have greater effect on the distortion the preamp creates when overdriven -- individual frequency clipping. In the loop you can still retain the individual characteristics of your pickups and guitars better IMO. Ideally you want one EQ in the black loop and one in the red, but if you've only got one the red loop is better.

I also use it to compensate for any volume degradation that some FX loops do. Its current placement on my board is the result of several conversations with axe slingers that have been gigging since the AquaNet era. The only differences between the above diagram and my rig are:

* I have a Whammy pedal in the chain right after the EQ for use when covering Morello's stuff.
* Swap out the Chorus for a Flanger -- same reason.

I change the Delay and Reverb depending upon what I'm doing.

It all fits on one board.

-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/4/2008 @ 2:49 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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Julia_343 said:

Reason the EQ is in the FX loop. The change in the frequencies prior to the preamp will have greater effect on the distortion the preamp creates when overdriven -- individual frequency clipping. In the loop you can still retain the individual characteristics of your pickups and guitars better IMO. Ideally you want one EQ in the black loop and one in the red, but if you've only got one the red loop is better.

I also use it to compensate for any volume degradation that some FX loops do. Its current placement on my board is the result of several conversations with axe slingers that have been gigging since the AquaNet era. And when you're miking your speaker cabs you can use your EQ to cut the low frequencies which really clip the mics.

The only differences between the above diagram and my rig are:

* I have a Whammy pedal in the chain right after the EQ for use when covering Morello's stuff.
* Swap out the Chorus for a Flanger -- same reason.

I change the Delay and Reverb depending upon what I'm doing.

It all fits on one board.


===================================================


-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/4/2008 @ 2:51 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Julia, thanks again for your continued input!

I did a test of the FX loop as suggested by the guy I spoke with at ISP:

I put a pair of unconnected 1/4" cables in the parallel FX loop send and return sockets to make a open circuit with the loop active. While playing my guitar straight in to the amp, I turned the blend knob all the way to the right to get the maximum wet signal of the FX loop. The volume dropped off radically, but some guitar sound did leak through. A little bit of sound, but definetely audible. Ideally it would have been dead quiet - like a serial FX loop would have been if it were cut to an open circuit. But it wasn't.

So the question remains, how should I connect things? My choices seem to be:

1. Run the secondary loop of the G-string into the FX loop(the main ISP idea for serial FX loops).

2. Avoid the FX loop completely and run the G-string's secondary loop through the rest of my pedals - with the exception of my time based stuff like my H2O pedal. This is also as shown in ISP literature.

3. A hybrid configuration Julia suggests! This method is kike #1, except that the time based effects are included in the G-strings's seconday loop to the amp's FX loop.

I put this question in email to the fellow from ISP, but he hasn't written back. (grrrrr.....) I am leaning toward #3. It just makes sense.

The there is question of where to put the EQ.

As it happens, I have both a Boss 7-band EQ pedal and a Tapco 10-band rack EQ. So, I could use the Boss in front of the amp and the Tapco in the FX loop. That is if I have enough cables to make all these connections! Smiley

Julia - I am little confused by what you wrote about "The change in the frequencies prior to the preamp will have greater effect on the distortion the preamp creates when overdriven -- individual frequency clipping. In the loop you can still retain the individual characteristics of your pickups and guitars better IMO." But maybe I will experiment with both EQs and find out for myself.

Maybe I'll hear back from ISP soon too...?


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/4/2008 @ 9:15 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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Zug-uitar said:

Julia, thanks again for your continued input!

I did a test of the FX loop as suggested by the guy I spoke with at ISP:

I put a pair of unconnected 1/4" cables in the parallel FX loop send and return sockets to make a open circuit with the loop active. While playing my guitar straight in to the amp, I turned the blend knob all the way to the right to get the maximum wet signal of the FX loop. The volume dropped off radically, but some guitar sound did leak through. A little bit of sound, but definetely audible. Ideally it would have been dead quiet - like a serial FX loop would have been if it were cut to an open circuit. But it wasn't.

So the question remains, how should I connect things? My choices seem to be:

1. Run the secondary loop of the G-string into the FX loop(the main ISP idea for serial FX loops).

2. Avoid the FX loop completely and run the G-string's secondary loop through the rest of my pedals - with the exception of my time based stuff like my H2O pedal. This is also as shown in ISP literature.

3. A hybrid configuration Julia suggests! This method is kike #1, except that the time based effects are included in the G-strings's seconday loop to the amp's FX loop.

I put this question in email to the fellow from ISP, but he hasn't written back. (grrrrr.....) I am leaning toward #3. It just makes sense.

The there is question of where to put the EQ.

As it happens, I have both a Boss 7-band EQ pedal and a Tapco 10-band rack EQ. So, I could use the Boss in front of the amp and the Tapco in the FX loop. That is if I have enough cables to make all these connections! Smiley

Julia - I am little confused by what you wrote about "The change in the frequencies prior to the preamp will have greater effect on the distortion the preamp creates when overdriven -- individual frequency clipping. In the loop you can still retain the individual characteristics of your pickups and guitars better IMO." But maybe I will experiment with both EQs and find out for myself.

Maybe I'll hear back from ISP soon too...?


===================================================


The following image is from the ISP Web Site on how to hook up the G-string.



You are trying to make it do something it wasn't designed to do. E-mails may take 24 to 48 hrs. You can call them. They will take your call and answer your questions.

* make sure your FX loop is set 100% wet.
* The FX loop may cut your volume a bit -- we know this. So this is one thing you use the EQ in the FX loop for -- to boost the volume back to unity.

The unit is designed to measure your guitar's signal as a base. Then your signal goes through the preamp section and gets all this noise added on top of the signal. Now you can't hear that noise when you're playing. You only really hear it when you mute, or have a break. This is where the decimator G-string comes in. It is at that time the thing slams the gate shut, but only after your strings have stopped vibrating.

Your signal gets that stuff cleaned before your time based FX. It must happen BEFORE your time based FX.

I was using the configuration in my previous on a squealing pig of a JVM. For this it worked beautifully. I also use the same configuration on my 6505+.

My suggestion: connect it the way I showed you above. If it does the job you're done. If it doesn't do the job, then you need to do something else.

What's the level on your loop anyway? If it's +4 dbv, you might want to make a volume box to roll off the signal a bit before it goes back to the Decimator. I use my Decimator G-string at -10 dbv.

-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/5/2008 @ 1:08 am

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Ummm... I'm not trying to make it do something it wasn't designed for. I am simply comparing the 2 standard connection diagrams from ISP with the 3rd option you presented in your diagram.

I understand that the FX loop does knock and signal down a bit and that an EQ can boost it bacl to where it was. (Kinda makes you wonder why amp manufacturers don't build in some kind of signal compensation for this).

If it's not too difficult, I will test connect in all 3 ways - unless I hear back from ISP first.

My amp has 2 master volumes. I don't think I need a volume box. Some specs from the owners manual:

effect send = 0 dB
effect return = 0 dB

line out 0 dB (@nominal output power level of 100 watts)

clean channel
input sensitivity = -40 dB
overdrive threshold = -2 dB

crunch channel
input sensitivity = -64 dB
overdrive threshold = -2 dB

lead channel
input sensitivity = -72 dB
overdrive threshold = -2 dB


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/5/2008 @ 8:06 am

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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Well it took all bloody day and then some. I testing the 3 different configurations. Then figuring out a physical layout, cutting and fitting cables, debugging bad connections until it was finally done.

I have a love-hate relationship with gear. I have no desire to add another pedal to my board. Luckily there's no more room!

The result of the experimenting wsa that I could not hear enough of a difference to justify the added complexity of running the secondary loop of the G-string through the parallel FX loop of the Dragon. Instead I chose option 2 below - - - I ran un the G-string's secondary loop through the rest of my pedals, except the H2O chorus/echo pedal.



This is the "before" pic of my pedal board.

Guitar -> tuner -> wah -> phaser -> tube screamer -> screwdriver (dirt) -> fuzz -> EQ -> comp -> chorus/echo




Here it is with the G-string worked in. With its chrome finish its wierd how it doesn't photograph well.

Guitar -> noise gate -. tuner -> wah -> fuzz -> phaser -> tube screamer -> screwdriver (dirt) -> EQ -> comp -> chorus/echo



...and here's a look at the underside, where the Voodoo Labs PP2+ lives.

The G-string needs to be the first pedal before the guitar. I moved the wah away from the edge so I could have the G-string at the side to make it easy to connect.

I had been meaning to move the fuzz up before the 2 other dirt pedals anyway.

I know the phaser doesn't really "belong" after the fuzz, but I don't use them at the same time anyway, so it doesn't matter much. It made the cabling much easier for reasons that are too pickayune to describe.

I'm just glad it all works. Oh, and it's real nice to have a great noise gate!


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/7/2008 @ 7:02 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Zug-uitar
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bump. it works pretty good ya know... Smiley


this rig requires something with a little more kick... plutonium!

Post Date: 12/10/2008 @ 7:27 pm

RE: Decimator G-string cable layout?
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Julia_343
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And my Whammy pedal doesn't "belong" in the FX loop either. It's supposed to be in the front end.

You know Zug, I had to take a look at the Randall FX loop situation pertaining to the Decimator etc. It's a line level on both the parallel loop and the serial loop. Ouch! I'm having to get an EBTech Line Level Shifter for this amp if I want to continue to use my current rig set up.

I called the Randall tech support about this today and they told me about that EBTech thing. And they told me to use the Serial Loop for everything. Well it does make things simpler.

Otherwise Line Level means rack units and I don't want to go to that expense right now.

-------------------------------------
--- Soudru�ka Julia of the Vocal Assassins
--- Disclaimer: pay no attention to tonal advice from this poster if you are under 30 and play thrash.

Post Date: 12/11/2008 @ 2:00 am


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